Pulp Non Fiction

[ Monday, May 29, 2006 ]



Tim Sebastian: Are you prepared for the consequences of refusing the Americans.

Rafik HARIRI: I hope there are no concequences. ( HOW WRONG HE WAS!) We are working with the americans and trying to make them understand that this ( hizballah) has nothing to do with terrorism.They are asking something we can not do but we are doing so many other things.But we are telling the americans if you want to win the war on terror we HAVE to resolve the arab israeli conflict.

Synopsis: If you watch these 2 videos & read the interviews you will be able to see that clearly was NOT SYRIA Hariri had a problem with...WATCH the video and YOU be the judge.

Source: BBC

Click on link below to watch the full interview and BBC...right click and save this as.

BBC HARDTALK Interview With Rafik Hariri (VIDEO)


Rafik Hariri

Rafik Hariri was killed in an explosion in Beirut
On the 15th February, HARDtalk repeats an interview with former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri who was killed in Beirut Feb 14 2005.

Rafik Hariri and 14 other people were killed in a car bombing in Beirut on Feb 14 2005.

A bomb blew up close to Hariri's motorcade injuring about 120 others.

Tim Sebastian spoke to Mr Hariri in November 2001 when he was still the country's prime minister.

They talked about the war on terror, the situation in the Middle East and relations with neighbouring Syria.

Tim Sebastian spoke to Mr Hariri in November 2001 when he was still the country's prime minister. They talked about the war on terror, the situation in the Middle East and relations with neighbouring Syria.



Lebanon refusal to freeze the assets of hizballa is considered a hugge snub to the usa.

H: We are friends with the united states.

I: Why dont you condemn hizballah?

It is related to the arab isreali conflict.There is no contact between Hizballa and al qaeda,even the americans do not say there is a relation between hizballa and qaeda,there are so many things,they are so different from each other,

Interviewer: THere is a contradiction in your stance. You say you are against terrorism yet when the us asks you to freeze the assets of hizballa you refuse.

H: We dont view hizballa the resistance movement as a terrorist organization.

I : So you differ on the definition of terrorist dont you isnt that crucial?

H: It is but we can not do otherwise, there is a part of our country thats occupied and other arab lands that are occupied,there is the conflict between israeli and palestinian,the everyday killing of palestinians by the israelis,there is a war goin on! It is unfortunate for both sides.But this conflict has to end thats why we are calling for the implementation of the un resolutions, i dont see any other solution, because if we dont impliment international law,the problem will continue, the violence will continue, the killing will continue,for both sides.

I: What will it take to change your mind about hisballah and freeze their funding?


I: How about proof about hizballa terrorist acts outside your country?

H: This is something i dont think hizballa has done it.

I: But you are not against the groups the the USA deems as terrorist hizballa.

H: We have a problem with israel, we do not have a problem with the united states.

I: Yeah but the united states has a problem with hizballah. a huge one.

H:It need a dialogue, we are not consider the americans our enemy, but we can not accept that the enemy of israel are the enemy of america at the same time,ISRAEL IS OUR ENEMY AND IS OCCUPYING OUR LAND so if the united states of america considers the enemy of israel as their enemy this is sonmething else...and i dont think that the americans want that.

I: Let me put it this way , the PRICE for your cooperation with the usa against hisballa is what?

H:Peace is agoal we have to attain whether sept 11 happened or not.Before or after 911 we can not accept that our people who are fighting the occupation to be trerated like that.No nation can say that. People have to judge.We are fighting terrorist qaeda and bin laden.There is a list of 150 terrorist group. Anything related to arab iraeli conflict we can not touch it anything else we will cooperate.Thisis our stand.

I: (Tauntingly), You know the truth of the matter is that even if you wanted to you couldnt stand up to hizballah because they are backed by syria and iran and you dont have the power to take on syria or iran.

H: It snot related if we have the power or not, its related in principle any country in the world, how can you go against the man who fights the occupation? It is unethical. Why dont you see what israel is doing? Why do you only see one side?I dont want and i hate to see an israeli chid or woman or man killed and MOST OF ALL I DONT WANT TO SEE MY OWN PEOPLE KILLED BY THE ISRSAELIS...or tortured or bombarded.

I: So you share the views of hisballah?

H: No we are not exactly on the same table.
I respect the US but dont accept this to happen to united sates and our people as well...to the palestinians and the lebanese.

I: Colim powel asks you to freeze the funds of hizballa what then?

H: I will tell him what im telling you, i will say in public wehat i say in private.This is something we can not do, we should not do, its unethical,these people fight for the liberation of their own land, how can we go after them?

I: Are you prepared for the consequences of refusing the Americans.

H: I hope there are no concequences.
( HOW WRONG HE WAS!) We are working with the americans and trying to make them understand that this ( hizballah) has nothing to do with terrorism.They are asking something we can not do but we are doing so many other things.But we are telling the americans if you want to win the war on teeror we HAVE to resolve the arab israeli conflict.It is not a condition.Why should I be against syria?We have to go to the root of the problem.The palestinian israeli relation is an occupation.

I:You werent strong enough to satnd up against hizballah...and according to many people you arent strong enough to satnd up against syria either.

H:Why should I stand up against syria?

They will withdraw when we ask them to withdraw.We will keep then until we feel we dont need them anymore.There are intellectuals who are asking to leave. And there are intellectuals who are asking Syria to stay.
Our society is a very special society. We have a democracy.When it comes to principles and the interest of the country we are one hand but there are differences this is normal.Our land is occupied. How do you want this land to be liberated? I believe in dialogue. We believe in democracy abnd human rights.There are differences but we can work it out.


"If one takes the time and watches this VERY IMPORTANT video of the hariri hard talk interview w/ tim sebastian, one will see that despite tim sebastians badgering and taunting cajoling hariri to say that hizballa were terrorists he insisted they were freedom fighters and that syria was justified in helping them.One will clearly see from the video interview that Hariri's MAIN problem was ISRAEL and the occupation of lebanon and other arab lands by them and more importantly the definition of the word terrorist.

Interview with BBC Radio

Tuesday, June 18, 2002

The President of the Council of Ministers Mr. Rafic Hariri st “Lebanon will not agree to attend a conference meant to improve Israel’s image in the world,” saying, “We are ready to do so if the US and Israeli governments are serious about reaching a solution in the region.” The Premier said this during an interview with BBC Radio. Below is a transcript of the interview:

Question: What did your talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair cover?

Prime Minister Hariri: Our talks with the British Prime Minister revolved around a host of subjects; bilateral relations, Britain’s possible participation in the Paris II donor conference which we hope to hold this year following talks with the French president-right after the end of elections and the appointment of a new government. We also discussed the situation in the Middle East and especially in the occupied Palestinian territories.

Q: Did you discuss specific issues related to the Middle East? Certainly, an American position is anticipated, as well as a conference to be convened this summer. What did you touch upon vis-à-vis this issue?

PM Hariri: Actually, we spoke of the situation in the Middle East-namely the occupied Palestinian territories-and the need for us to work together towards a comprehensive (not a partial) solution for the area. I was explicit about the fact that Lebanon’s position being in support of peace in the region, albeit a comprehensive peace that includes Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinians.

Q: So you discussed re-activating the Lebanese and Syrian tracks in negotiations with Israel?

PM Hariri: Naturally, because we always speak of a comprehensive solution. And such a solution would include everybody. However, the British Prime Minister and we are aware of the difficulties arising from the current situation in the region and the difficulties facing the peace process.

Q: Are we to understand from this, your Excellency, that you are against a conference addressing the Palestinian issue bilaterally between the Israel and Palestinian sides? There is talk of a potential Palestinian state. An Arab peace proposal is also on the table. Israel and the United States clearly wish to initiate a solution with the Palestinian side. What is Lebanon’s position on this?

PM Hariri: It would be difficult for the Lebanese state to articulate a position regarding a situation that is not based on a formal invitation addressed either to the Palestinian leadership, ourselves, or our Syrian brethren. However, we have given our opinion; I was just speaking at a meeting and, replying to a question on whether we were with Lebanon being invited along with Syria to a conference. I said it wasn’t a question of inviting Lebanon, but rather whether Lebanon and Syria will accept the invitation or not. It is not a matter of meetings, but rather a matter of ‘what will come of them’. We all know that conferences come about as a result of prior agreements in order to cap them, not to touch off a debate on their points-particularly when they are at a particular political level. If Lebanon is to participate, it needs to know what the agenda is, what topics will be discussed, and what results are expected from the conference. Hence, matters must be discussed outside the conference just as it happens in all conferences. One doesn’t come to a conference and discuss issues there; issues are normally discussed outside the conference-that is on the one hand.

On the other, we are apprehensive that this conference will be but a means for Sharon and Israel to redress their international public image. The Israeli government’s reputation is clearly tarnished vis-à-vis international public opinion. We fear the Israeli government might want to continue in its policy so as to strike at the Palestinians, wipe away the Palestinian Authority, and beg out of all the previous agreements and discussions that took place between Syria and the Israelis; and between the Palestinians and Israelis, telling us we have to go back to square one. Lebanon will not agree to that. If we determine this to be the object of the conference, then I assure you Lebanon will not participate nor, in my estimation, will the Syrians.

Q: We hear you saying this, your Excellency, after having visited Washington. You must have discussed...

PM Hariri: No, we did not touch upon this subject in Washington.

Q: Are we to understand, then, that you’re uncertain whether the United States, despite all we’ve heard of its support for the Arab peace proposal that began with Crown Prince Abdullah’s initiative, will back this proposal or make it a basis for any discussion related to the Middle East in the prospective conference?

PM Hariri: I did not say that. I said we were for any effort aimed at reaching peace, on condition that it be quite serious. As for Lebanon, it will not agree to attend a conference meant to improve Israel’s image in the world. However, we are ready to do so if the US and Israeli governments are serious about reaching a solution in the region.

Q: Lebanon is calling for issues to be discussed prior to convening the conference. Do you propose opening channels with the Americans?

PM Hariri: Of course. This goes for us, the Syrians and the Palestinians. That is a given. What I am saying now is something the Americans already know. They have spoken to us several times and our answer was clear. We support any effort aimed at reaching a peace agreement, on condition that it be a serious effort; an effort that is not meant to polish Israel’s image and make Sharon out to be a man of peace at a time when we see all his actions to be just the opposite. That, simply, is our position.

Q: The United States and Israel are no doubt lobbying Lebanon to do its share as well in defusing regional tensions ahead of any negotiations that might take place. They always say there is the matter of Hizbullah...

PM Hariri: Israel possesses the greatest arsenal of weapons in the region. It is capable of waging war on all the Arabs put together. It possesses nuclear weapons; all sorts of bombs, in fact; weapons of mass destruction; all sorts of fighter jets; and innumerable weapons. Yet it is trying to portray itself through the media outlets and political rhetoric as the victim that has been assailed. It is the Arabs who are the victims and Arab lands that are being occupied.

Q: But this does not negate the fact that attacks are being launched on Israel from within Lebanese territories.

PM Hariri: That is not true. A portion of Lebanese territory is still under Israeli occupation. That is the cause of instability along a segment of the Lebanese-Israeli border. As for the rest of the Blue Line, it is calm. There have been no complications there since they left. There are the Shebaa Farms-and they are occupied Lebanese territory. The Israelis say it is not Israeli but Syrian territory, and Syria says it is Lebanese territory. The Israelis must get out of these lands.

Q: But neither Syria nor Lebanon have resolved the issue of whether the Shebaa Farms are Lebanese or Syrian. There has been no demarcation of the border.

PM Hariri: That is not true. How can demarcation be done whilst the occupation remains. Has any country ever drawn up its borders with another country while its land was occupied? Demarcation occurs via specific measures. How can we lay down borders when the territory is occupied and Israeli troops are present in it? This talk is unacceptable. If Israel vacates, then the matter of delineating a border can be wound up. They have nothing to do with the relationship between Lebanon and Syria. In any case, they have stated the territory is not Israeli, so let them vacate it.

Q: If there is a need for US mediation and negotiations with Israel via the American party, then shouldn’t Lebanon try not to embarrass the American side by denying Israel the pretext of the massing of Hizbullah and its new weapons and refusing to deploy troops in the South?

PM Hariri: Let’s speak frankly. Israel cannot give itself a right and preclude others this same right. Has it decreased its armed presence, the number of its troops, its military equipment, or stopped buying weapons of mass destruction? What do we own compared to all this? If you take a look at the armed forces present in Lebanon, be they regular or not, you’ll see that they represent but a tiny portion of what Israel has.

Q: The Lebanese authorities arrested Palestinians attempting to attack Israel from Lebanon. What’s the difference?

PM Hariri: The difference is enormous. We have reiterated dozens of times that Lebanon refuses to be turned into a fighting arena by the Palestinians against the Israelis. If the Palestinians wish to fight Israel, then let them do it from within the occupied territories. The Lebanese border is not the right place to do that. That is the position of the Lebanese government.

Q: There is Israeli talk of the return of the Revolutionary Iranian Guard to the Bekaa in support of Hizbullah.

PM Hariri: That is nothing but ‘Israeli talk’. The Israelis entered into Palestinian territories, destroyed their houses, and abducted their men. The Israeli army ordered the murder of Palestinians yet raised objections abroad. Would you believe the rhetoric or the actions Israel is committing on the ground?

Q: During the all-important signing of the Association Agreement with the European Union in Luxembourg, the Lebanese Foreign Minister was quoted as saying that Lebanon must do everything in its power to enhance regional cooperation in the Middle East. Within the framework of the Barcelona process and these agreements, participating countries-including Israel-must cooperate with each other. What was meant by saying that Lebanon will seek to enhance such cooperation?

PM Hariri: In the simplest of terms, the Minister said we will cooperate with the European countries. Period. Nothing more.

Q: So the European countries are meant by “regional cooperation”?

PM Hariri: For us it does.

Q: Let’s talk a little about the Palestinian situation. You did, of course, stress for a comprehensive solution. However, Lebanon no doubt has an opinion about the solutions proposed to the Palestinians, given that 300,000 Palestinians in Lebanon are affected by this solution.

PM Hariri: We respect the Palestinians’ decision. We will agree to whatever solution they find acceptable unless it affects us in some way. In other words, the matter of Jerusalem concerns both us and the Palestinians, because Jerusalem does not belong to the Palestinians alone but concerns the entire Arab and Islamic worlds. Hence, we have an opinion on this just as all the Arab countries do. However, as concerns the nature of the agreement between the Israelis and Palestinians, they are more knowledgeable of this matter.

As for the Palestinian presence in Lebanon, that, too, is something we have an opinion about, for nobody has more of a say on this matter than Lebanon. We refused naturalization. It is part of our constitution and there is total and complete consensus in Lebanon on this issue.

Q: In an interview with one of the American media outlets before flying to Washington, you answered a question about the Syrian military presence in Lebanon by saying that the Syrians are aiding Lebanon, especially since 300,000 Palestinians are present there. This gave the impression that you saw the Palestinians presence as a factor of instability in Lebanese society. Do you see any danger emanating from the Palestinians refugee camps?

PM Hariri: Don’t put words in my mouth. I said the Syrian presence in Lebanon is a positive factor in ensuring stability in Lebanon on many levels, security being one of them. I also said we had much more to do. I won’t hide the fact that the border between Lebanon and Israel was on fire two decades ago. Palestinians in Lebanon are located in camps and are a special case. We are working with our brother Syrians to safeguard stability in Lebanon. To this end, we look upon the Syrian presence as a supportive one. As for whether the Palestinian presence in Lebanon is a factor of stability or not, that is not an issue from this angle, since stability is ensured by the Lebanese state with the help of the Syrians...

Q: -with the existence of weapons in the Palestinian camps?

PM Hariri: This matter is limited to the camps and the state has been successful in this regard.

Q: The existence, however, of attempts carried out by the Palestinians in the South means that weapons are finding their way out of the camps sometimes.

PM Hariri: It is also proof that the Lebanese state is ever-watchful.



Exclusive: Lebanon's PM On Conflict

BEIRUT, April 15, 2002
Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri (AP)

(CBS) In an exclusive interview, CBS News Anchor Dan Rather speaks with Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri about the concern that the Mideast conflict could expand northward into Lebanon, if border attacks by Hezbollah guerrillas provoke an Israeli invasion.


Rather: Mr. Prime Minister, do you personally expect Ariel Sharon to send an Israeli ground operation into southern Lebanon?

Hariri: He might do that. I wish he will not. I know very well that Israel has the strongest army in the region and I know that he can destroy our country. He can stand against all the Arab countries in the region, against all the Arabs together we know that.

Rather: If Ariel Sharon and the Israelis should open even aerial attacks, much less a ground attack, what will happen?

Hariri: Oh it will be a war. It will be a war this is a big mistake for all of us. And then what?

Rather: That's my question and then what?

Hariri: Exactly. We can argue whose mistake it is. But then what? Do we want to live in war? Do we hate each other until to the extent that we want to destroy each other? The point is how we end this? We can argue me and you until tomorrow, who is making mistakes but this does not change the reality on the ground.

Rather: Can you exert control over Hezbollah, in the southern half of your country?

Hariri: In what situation, if there is a peace?

Rather: For Israel's security.

Hariri: If there is a peace all the countries in the region will co-operate together to assure the security of each other.

Rather: The belief is widespread in the United States that Yassir Arafat had 95% of what he had asked for on the table and he walked away from it.

Hariri: Why 95 percent, why not 100 percent? All the territory that has been occupied in 1967 against peace and normal relations with Israel it means 100 percent. It doesn't mean 99 percent. I think if you want peace you have to give me what is mine. Sheba Farm, I know so many people who say, what is Sheba Farm, it is just a small piece of land. Yes but it is our land.

Rather: And if the Israelis agree to do that what do they get?

Hariri: They get to be part of the solution. They want to live in peace, they want to live in peace, I cannot imagine that the Israeli people, who are a people of history they want to live in war with their neighbors forever. They want to carry guns all their lives? How can they imagine this.

Rather: Mr. Prime Minster, if President Bush were to say to you, how do we stop suicide bombings, sending young Muslim people to their own certain death and doing evil deeds, how do we stop that?

Hariri: Surely 100 percent we cannot stop them by what Sharon is doing. It won't stop and by the contrary it might exceed it. Secondarily the answer is the same, peace peace and peace.

Rather: And to those Israelis who say listen the only thing they understand is the fist?

Hariri: You think it works, it will not work, it will never work. You cannot take 2 million people and jail them. What has to happen today, they have to stop and they have to withdraw. United States has to play its role as the greatest country in the world, because you have all kinds of arms? Not because of that...because we believe you are a democratic society, you believe in human rights. You believe in the law. We need your help to achieve peace in the region without you we cannot make it ok? We cannot do it.



Interview With Rafik Hariri
Aired March 29, 2002 - 14:30 ET



DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: As we continue our discussion of what is happening in the Middle East and our coverage with a very important phone call standing by. Rafik Hariri, prime minister of Lebanon, calling in from Beirut. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for calling us.

Hello, sir? Are you there? Mr. Hariri?


KAGAN: OK. It's Daryn Kagan at CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. Mr. Hariri, have you had chance to speak with Yasser Arafat today?

HARIRI: Yes. I just spoke to him. Yes.

KAGAN: You just spoke with him?

HARIRI: Yeah. Yeah. I just spoke to him. Yes.

KAGAN: And...

HARIRI: An hour ago.

KAGAN: And what was the discussion? Did he talk about what had happened in his compound today in Ramallah?

HARIRI: He was telling me about the situation he is living in. He said that all the buildings around his residence have been destroyed and they are -- they are on fire. And he told me that there is five people have been killed and they cannot move them. And about 40 persons were injured, and they cannot transfer them to the hospital.

KAGAN: And what about his own personal safety? Was he -- had he been hurt, or did he fear for his safety?

HARIRI: Yes. He is concerned. And -- but he said I have -- I cannot do anything, I am under siege.

KAGAN: The Israeli government has made it very clear -- I don't know if you've gotten this word, but certainly we've heard it here on CNN and from Secretary of State Colin Powell -- that Yasser Arafat is not their target. They do not intend to kill him in this operation.

HARIRI: So what they are trying to do? Undermine him? Put pressure on him? His people? I don't know what they are doing.

KAGAN: Is today a discouraging day for you, sir, especially since history was made in your country yesterday, with the approval by the Arab League of the Saudi peace proposal?

HARIRI: You know, the picture in the Arab world that there is in one hand, a peace plan, has been agreed from all the Arab countries, and was supported by the United States, Europe, China, Russia, the European Union and all the other countries in the world. And on the other hand, we see that the Israeli government is attacking that part of the Palestinian leader. This is a political scene in the Middle East today.

KAGAN: I don't know if you were able to hear earlier. We certainly carried his comments on CNN and CNN International. But U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, very clear the U.S. believes that Israel has a right to defend itself, in light of the recent suicide bombings.

HARIRI: Yeah. Everybody has the right to defend himself, but by attacking headquarter of President Arafat, this will lead to -- to the security of Israel? I doubt that.

KAGAN: Were you able to hear -- were you able to hear Secretary Powell's comments earlier today?

HARIRI: Yeah. I had -- I didn't hear him in person, but I saw in writing what he said.

KAGAN: And you could see then, if you saw the writing, that he was very critical of the Palestinians, and almost completely blaming them for the breakdown of the peace process, saying the one reason that the peace process is breaking down is because of raw terror, whereas not being so harsh on the Israelis. What's your reaction to that?

HARIRI: You know, it's very hard here in this part of the world to understand those statements. I'll be very frank with you. We do respect highly the secretary, but it is very hard for us to understand this statement at this moment, after -- especially after the Arab peace plan and the action of Arafat.

KAGAN: And how would you suggest -- how would you suggest that that peace process get back on track and move past today's violence, sir?

HARIRI: First of all -- first of all, I believe that the Israeli government has to announce clearly and loudly that they do accept that peace plan, which has been accepted by the whole world, including the U.N. Secretary-General, including everybody in the world. And to stop that attack against the Palestinians and the Palestinian leader.

KAGAN: And are you hopeful that's going to happen? There are certainly some elements of that peace plan that the Israelis are not comfortable with. HARIRI: You know, it is very clear that the Israelis, they don't want this plan and they don't agree. You know, the irony in our situation is the following. That we have public opinion in the Arab world who is supporting the peace initiative and the peace plan and the government -- all the governments in the Arab world are for it and they support it. And they vote for it 100 percent.

On the other hand, we have in Israel, an Israeli government which has been elected by the Israeli people. Their political agenda is not for peace. They are from the camp anti-peace.

KAGAN: Mr. Prime Minister, I want to get back to your conversation that you had just a little bit ago with Yasser Arafat. We're showing to our U.S. domestic audience right now videotape that shows Yasser Arafat meeting earlier today with advisers in his compound.

Was he able to relate to you how much he's able to do this right now, whether it's meeting with other people within his compound, or clearly get phone calls out? I mean, obviously, he was able to make contact with you, so there is some communication that's taking place.

HARIRI: Yes. There is a satellite phone which is still working. He said, "I'm talking to you in the dark. I have no electricity." And he explained to me that situation of the buildings around him. He said he's in the dark, and that his satellite telephone is working.

KAGAN: And just one note from yesterday, were you able to explain to him and can you explain to us now, sir, why you blocked his speech that he was trying to give to the Arab meeting yesterday? Why did you not let that play?

HARIRI: It -- it wasn't -- it was a technical problem. The Lebanese president told the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and he will come, President Arafat, and any speech he wants to mjusery well. Understood. Prime Minister Rafik Hariri of Lebanon. Sir, thank you for calling us. We appreciate your time. A difficult day in your part of the world today.


art [4:10 PM]